Kirsty Lewis
AKS Welcome to A Listening Life, the podcast for coaches who are finding it hard work to build a sustainable, profitable business full of clients. I'm Aly King Smith, sharing stories and lessons learned from some of my successful peers and colleagues who've managed to crack the code and break through to a profitable, meaningful business. My conversation today is with the fabulous Kirsty Lewis, creator of the School of Facilitation, the SOF Collective, a space for global facilitators and trainers to come together to connect, learn, share, and inspire each other.
KL You don't have to know how to do everything. So I was really clear from the beginning.
I don't do finance, I don't do legal, I don't do accounting. I'm certainly not someone in the world of branding. So I have always paid for those services because otherwise, I'm gonna spend hours of my life that I can never get back working that kind of stuff out. Think about the skills you've learned as a coach.
KL Good questioning, good listening, summarizing, rapport building. That is what you do in the selling context of a conversation. What is the legacy you want to leave?
Where do you want to go? What's the mark you want to learn? put on the world?
AKS In this episode, I'm thrilled to introduce Kirsty Lewis, a seasoned facilitator with over 15 years of experience igniting changing global teams across various industries.
I followed Kirsty for some time now online and meeting her did not disappoint. She has so much wisdom to share about how to brand up and make our offers easier to find and to buy.
Kirsty wears many hats. one being the founder of the School of Facilitation, SOF Collective. It's her brainchild, a powerful hub that brings facilitators together. We discuss this striking brand in the podcast.
Kirsty's keen to point out that she's not a coach, but I felt certain her story and brand has massive overlaps to the world of coaches and coach facilitators. So I hope you enjoy her take on things.
AKS Welcome to Kirsty Lewis. Come in my time capsule with me, if you would, back to the moment when you realised this is working, this is a thing I'm going to be able to pay my way using this.
KL I think it was back in early 2009, so I left corporate Christmas 2007. So it was 2009 and I've done a full year working for myself at that time. My business was called Blue Tortoise and I was an associate and I was doing lots of sales training. And yeah, I realised I think I said something to my mum and dad because they were really concerned about me like leaving for the Hallows of Diageo and why would anyone do that?
And I just think I'd just remember saying to them, oh, yeah, I've had a quite a good year and I've been able to pay all my bills. I'm going to be able to go on holiday. And I think my dad dropped me back at the train station at that point. And it was like,
yeah, we're really proud of you that you've managed to do this. And I think it was just then I was like, oh, okay, this works.
AKS Proud dad means this work. Tell me about that because I've got a big, I really made a meal out of going self employed. I found it very difficult to shrug off the assumptions and fear and all sorts of things that I had. I really sort of wobbled between employment and self improvement for many years. really. So you were working in Diageo and then you weren't so tell us about that.
KL It was the 7th of April 2007 and I was on a workshop for a friend who was testing this new outcome creating workshop and I didn't have an outcome but I went along because I was a good friend and I was like oh I need an outcome.
So I just facetiously said oh it's it's April 2009, "and I'm an NLP coach and trainer, and I earn 5 ,000 pounds a month." And then I just worked on that all day. So looking at beliefs, limiting, reinforcing my values, the skills I'd need to be able to do that. And by the time I got on my bicycle to cycle home, I felt like that was a real possibility. And it had never occurred to me before that I would leave the corporate world.
AKS Sold on that idea, amazing.
KL What happened then though, let's be really clear, it wasn't like I never went back into the office the next day and resigned, I certainly did not. I cried a lot. I spoke to a lot of people about a plan, how was I gonna make this work? And I really did work out a plan of who I was going to work for, how much money I needed to earn. earn and I was really lucky because at that time I had no significant other no children I was 34 and it was all okay so I just had to work out the finances and then I resumed in October so it's easy
AKS Wow rare first thing when you say it was easy there's a there's a jump from crying a lot to it was easy yeah what was that
KL So I for the first time I was going through my NLP practitioner. So if anyone's ever done any kind of learning, I thought I was going to go and learn how to be to use NLP. No one had told me was you're sorting out your own share at the same time. Yeah, you get done. So you get done. So whether that's if you're on a ICF coaching accreditation, NLP, systemic constellations, you're sorting your stuff out. So that definitely helped. helped. I also had a coach that I was working with that I paid for to help me look at the situation. So that helped. And I was really clear that this move was aligned with my own personal values and my own beliefs. And it got tested actually, which was really interesting. After I'd resigned, the chief operating officer came to me and asked for a conversation. And he basically offered me any job I wanted. If I wanted to go to Singapore, if I wanted to go to Dubai, he would make it happen for me. And I literally just sat there with this real sense of knowing that that's not what I wanted. And it felt, and I'm rubbing my hand up and down the center of my chest right now, because it was so congruent inside that the decision really sat well with me and my values. And it just felt right I had no wobble in the system.
AKS Nice. That's making me think actually for someone, 'cause when I was thinking about doing a listening life, I spoke to quite a few coaches about how they were feeling.
And maybe that resonance wasn't there for all of them. That might be a nice place to go hunting for anyone who's feeling wibbly, wobbly in those first few months of I've done it, but I'm not sure about it. Is where's that incongruence? So what was that rock solid congruence based on? - Yeah. It's nice thinking. Yeah, that's how it happened. So you were an associate at that stage. So when I come across to you, you're running this amazing school of facilitation, which I love the branding. I love the way it looks on the website. It's easy to understand what you're trying to sell it. So inspiring, I think, for someone who's trying to create a business of his clarity, is what clarity looks like. So I'm imagining you didn't, well maybe you did just wake up one morning with a clarity or how did you get from there to there?
KL It was like a meeting of various different paths all coming to a point. So school of facilitation is nine years old, should be 10 next year. So we go back to 2011 and my mum died sadly and what I didn't do at that time was grieve, I just put it all in a box. and stuck it to one side and carried on working. And in 2013, my mentor said to me, I don't think you sorted yourself out. Like, I'm not saying that grief is something that you sort of look at, examine, talk about, and then it's done. But she said, I don't think we even started the process. And she kindly gifted me a coaching session with a lady called Judy Wilkins -Smith, who's a systemic - constellator, and I started working with Judy. And in that work with her to look at the grief, SOF started to gestate the idea of it, didn't have a name at that time. And the reason for that is I was, I was always sad and that my mom hadn't fulfilled her own dreams. And I think it just kicked me that was like, well, hold on, you've always wanted to create a space for trainers and facilitators to learn, to develop themselves. I couldn't work out where that sat in the marketplace. I just didn't see it out there. And so that's where that started. At the same time, I done no work for DIGO in all that time as an associate and they came knocking and said, can you help us? We're revamping our Global Sales Academy. And so that became a really big project for two years. And that was the first time I probably had it. a really big, direct client of my own. And so then that was like, oh, okay, so I can do that. And then interestingly, the associate relationship fell apart at the back end of 2014 and then into 2015. So again, it was just like, something that was space in my diary. And yeah, it just all came to be at the right time. And that's how SOF was born. August 2014
AKS SOF being School of Facilitation Amazing so it feels really really congruent with the direction you were traveling with your previous employer was ready to support some work as well So it all started to be born that the clarity I see on the website in terms of here's what we offer And here's how you can buy it and here's how you can register to be on the waiting list for this course to go. Is that marketing skill that you had to acquire to learn how to do that or does that just feel obvious?
KL My formative years is all about branding. So I just feel so blessed that I worked for Diageo and Guinness when it was Guinness and before that Bass Brewers. Brewers and if you look at their they're stable of brands they're really iconic branding so like Guinness. So whilst I was in the commercial team in those businesses you can't help but learn about marketing because marketing is fundamental to the way those businesses operate. So I was really clear when I created school of facilitation that the branding had to look really strong and iconic I wanted it to be memorable for people.
I knew color was really important. So that was one thing. And then, as I said, I've got a commercial background. And it's B2B, so business to business, not business to consumer. But I was quite comfortable doing, I am really comfortable having commercial conversations. I'm really comfortable saying a number, especially in the B2B context. I've had to learn to get comfortable. though, with business to consumer, 'cause that, for some reason, has always felt really odd in my head.
AKS Sure, it's a different kind of after. It's interesting, I didn't think we were gonna go to this. It hadn't really occurred to me, the branding part being so important. And actually, in quite a few of the podcasts I've done so far, we've talked about sales and the discomfort with selling. But actually, this branding piece is really interesting to explore. I love a brand, I love creating a brand. a brand. I love naming brands. I think for me, it's so energizing because it becomes its own thing. So it's obvious who to speak to and what to tell them about it. It feels easier. What's your experience of when you say I wanted it to be a great brand? Tell us what that would be like for you.
KL When I first left the earth, a really great friend of mine, Chris Hoskins, he advised me that to name your business. you've got three options. He said, you either name it after yourself, you name it after what it is you, you are going to be doing, or it's abstract. So my first business was very abstract blue tortoise. So it gave me a space to hide. But when I came to S O F school of facilitation, I felt like it needed to say what it was going to do. So that was the first thing in the naming. And then the branding you see now is a second iteration. So I had some other branding, but this is way stronger, I think, because of what it speaks to. And so when I worked with the agency, I just described what School of Facilitation meant to me, what it was about community, about connection, about sharing, about learning together. And that's where, if anyone goes to, look for it now they'll see there's a circle that represents the O of of and the circle is actually made up of lots and lots of connecting circles so there is no break in all those little signs and that represents the community and connection and share.
AKS Lovely I love hearing people talk about their brand. My it was based on a strand of DNA, because it's a science tech, biotech kind of world. And it was when I started doodling DNA, and then I wanted to be colorful. Suddenly, you could hear your values coming out, you could hear what was important. It was a science start. Obviously, we work with quite a bit of tech and and all sorts of STEM now, but that was where we came from with the science background. And once you start catching what you want to catch with your branding, it gives you you energy.
KL Yeah and I had a real moment I went to I'm just going to plug them happy startups summer camp amazing if you've never come across the happy startup group but I went to their summer camp as a long weekend and yeah it was really weird Aly people were like oh who are you what do you do and I go KST school of facilitation and some people go oh I know you oh we follow you on social media well I I get your newsletter. And I was like, Oh, okay. And then the girl I was sharing my belt tent with, but we hadn't made the connection for two days. And then she was like, hold on a minute, you're the one with that really cool brand with the,
like, I could see it in my head. It says SFF, doesn't it? And I just went, Oh, my goodness, all my Christmas’s have come at once. And it's just, it's a really small thing. But it just meant the world to me that someone that their branding was starting to be recognised by others.
AKS Yeah, lovely. I used to run a business called the bird table and I used the word bird to reclaim the word bird for women because it had been such an objectionable word like we're going to call it bird and we're going to make it a nice word and it was such a conversation starter you know people want to if they hated it I didn't even mind yeah it was just we we just got talking and everybody can remember it's easiest to remember and there are people that can help with that aren't they? there? If you don't find branding comes easily, there are people that help.
KL And I think this goes to when you're creating your own business as a solopreneur or for your partnership or there's a group of you, you don't have to know how to do everything. So I was really clear from the beginning, I don't do finance, I don't do legal, I don't do accounting and I'm certainly not someone in the world of branding. So I have always paid small and now getting slightly larger but for those services because otherwise I'm going to spend hours of my life that I can never get back working that kind of stuff out and I think it's worth paying for that.
AKS Definitely. If you think how many clients you'd have to win to pay back a brand it, even an expensive branding person. you'd only have to win two or three good work and then you're done. Exactly that. Yeah, I think my first year I survived without an accountant and then I spent more on somebody to unravel my mess than I would have done if I just paid for the accountant in the beginning. Yes, my favorite person in my life is by accountant.
KL Same here and my fear, my fear was too great of getting it wrong with HMRC. So from the off I had an accountant. accountant and then about six years in I met the wonderful Victoria who is my finance manager so she's been with us ever since.
AKS That's great so you must have so much to share with us that you experience in other facilitators and coaches so you were really clear with me before we started to you'd like to people to know that you're not making all your work from coaching there's a mixture of facilitation some training You do do some coaching and coaching of coaches as well, which is interesting. But for us, I think it doesn't matter so much what the specialty of the delivery for the client is because it's a coach consulting kind of a world that we're talking about. But I saw you posting about associates. If you fancy doing some associate work, come and get to know me. Come on something. I can't work with associates till I have met you ad that really resonated with me because my experiences of people saying please can I have some associate work and I've never I don't know who they are and there's a gap there so I'd love to explore that a little bit if you were helping people tiptoe towards more associate work what top tips have you got
KL yeah I work with people I know because I have seen them on their feet or I've had interactions with themso I know how they show up or what's important to them. So I can then sense into is there a fit with the SOF way and also the client that I want to put them in front of.
I do get, sometimes it depends what's happened in social media, but people suddenly go, "Oh, can I come and work for you?" And I'm like, well, that's very flattering, but no. Probably to say, I haven't got anywhere to go. for you, but B, I don't know you, and it's fine that you send me your CV, that's useful. But what I'd actually, because a big thing for me with school of facilitation is about training other trainers to be brilliant at what they do. I probably want to see that you have a passion for training other trainers, so come along to an SOF pod. They're free, they happen every month on a Friday. Come along. to one of the master classes and demonstrate that you really want to learn and evolve. Have some coaching with me on your business side, for example. But I think if you are just sending out, and it's a sometimes the gamble plays off, you know, you send out a covering email to see if anyone's got any work. But unless someone's been really proactive and saying, I am looking for associates, I think it's a lot of effort for maybe minimal payback.
AKS It's tricky, isn't it? Because I think every now and again I see something on someone's CV. I think, oh, that's really interesting. Maybe they facilitate in French, or they have a certain coaching qualification that I'm curious about. But generally, the truth is there are gazillions of coaches and facilitators, aren't there? And so just to send your CV and hope to get to the top of the pile is a... tricky one. And I like to make the link probably in my head where if networking is horrible, where people go, "Oh, I hate networking," actually to move from, don't just network with the whole universe of everybody, but get to know some people that use associates somehow and play there. So anything else for people moving towards associate?
KL The other thing I would suggest is is don't be afraid to ask your network who you know are associates,who do they work for and are they looking for more associates at this time? There are some of the especially in the coaching world and I'm sure your listeners know there's some big players now out there in especially in the UK so you've got mine Jim, you've got BTS who are a coach in a box. And sometimes they do have recruitment drives or they even have a way of applying just to get on a waitlist on their website. So sometimes I direct people to have a look there. And Prime Coach as well, I know are seeking people at this time when we've recorded this. So it's probably going out and getting on some of those lists could serve you.
But I'd also also be talking to your network and asking who do they work? Yes, I guess like any job application you can get onto the website But also if you can find the human behind that and have a conversation with them through LinkedIn or through your own Links through your network.
AKS Yeah Interesting so Tell me more about Selling so you've got your lovely branding then what do you do? Where did you go? I've created this thing. I've got this imagining.
KL So this is the really weird one, Aly, Up to now. So I've got, there's two parts of the business, probably should explain that. So we've got the corporate and we've got the collective. So the corporate is, as it says on the tin, we work with directly with corporates. And that work has always found me, and I'm guessing it's found me, through my network. And I love it. I love talking to people. I'm a collector of people, colleagues, friends. I remember people very easily. And I think that I didn't realize that that was a superpower for quite a long time.
So that has to be in good stead. So a lot of the time the corporate work finds me. And also on the corporate work, because I put myself out there. You see us a lots on social media. whether that's Instagram or LinkedIn. I think we're front of mind, and that people go, oh, we could go and talk to Kirsty about this, we could go and talk to School of Facilitation. So a lot of the time, the work comes towards me. And then on the collective side, the collective is all about other facilitators, trainers and coaches who want to grow their own capabilities. capability as a trainer or a facilitator so learning to design a really great workshop looking at their way of facilitating and training so what's their style what's there some of my friends call it their signature and some people also come on like they want coaching specifically about maybe designing workshops for someone and they want some coaching on that or they want Support looking at their business structure and how they're currently setting up So those are the two sides of the business and but both of them have definitely come through how the sales have grown It just comes through a lot of Me being comfortable on social media I think and consistency. That's another word Consistency, so I write a newsletter every month and I've done that for five years years. So I think all of that over time, yes, builds momentum. So that's the one thing. But then it's been comfortable having the conversations, I think, when you finally do get in front of someone. And that really doesn't faze me because that was my bread and butter for eight years when I was in sales. So I learned how to sell, have a good conversation, I should say. I know how to have a good conversation.
AKS Yes, having a conversation So I'm always intrigued about what that magic source is that takes someone from Friends with selling to you know, not friends with selling. Yeah, I I love selling if I'm selling something good because I think I Just would like to help you see what I can see and how this might be helpful And I don't have an argument with selling. I just find it comfortable lots in the world of coaches tell me they hate selling and they find it really uncomfortable. So is there anything you can offer those people to step closer to being friends with?
KL So for years when I was in the commercial world, I wanted to be in marketing, I thought that was a glamorous side and I didn't wanna be in sales. And for various reasons, I end up in sales and there was a few epiphanies when I realized. it wasn't about being pushy, it wasn't about telling my customers that they had to take Guinness or Smirnoff or Baileys. It was about the conversation to understand what it is they needed at that time and then for me to find solutions that fitted their needs for their pubs and their restaurants and their nightclubs.
And I was very fortunate that I worked for a company that had a big stable of brands, therefore, lots and lots of possibility and solutions. And when I did that reframe that I wasn't selling double glazing, I wasn't a car salesperson, you know, but I felt pushy. It was like, actually, no, it's about, it's just about having the conversation. So don't go in doing your elevator pitch. Please don't do that. But please spend time asking questions, building rapport. Think about the skills you've learned as a coach, good questioning, good listening,
summarizing rapport building. That is what you do in the selling context of a conversation. So you do all of that first, you understand, understand, understand what it is they're seeking.
And if you know you have a solution to their problem, to their need. that's when you share your idea. And it could be something like, look, I've got an idea,
how about dot, dot, dot. What it's not, though, Ali is, you know, basically get on a call and you've come to me. And then I'm like, so Ali, you said you were interested in Flourishing Facilitator,
one of our core programs. And I just go, so I think you should do it because it, it does this, this and this. And I can tell you all the... component parts and I Will tell you how much it is and how there's a payment plan Yes,
I spent no time understanding what it is That you're curious about or that's exciting you about this program or why how you even discovered it But if I ask all those questions and I understand what's important to you when I Share I say,
what do you need to know? What else is there? I can can target my conversation to exactly what it is you need. Yes. Because I think some of the people trying to train sales have actually made it harder in that they've made some things feel manipulative,
which actually don't need to be manipulative. So this idea, finding a pain point and selling to the pain point, what pain you're trying to solve, that feels very manipulative.
But actually, if somebody is sitting, spending some time with the School of Facilitation for conversation or with me as a coach, that they have a curiosity about something that they would like to be working on and that's finding that that feels like the selling conversation,
which is a relaxed one. Exactly. Versus if people are being, and I get there's lots of business gurus out there telling people how to get more sales.
sales. But if they're saying to you, just get a meeting with 10 new fresh leads and then you're telling them that they need a coach or you're telling them that they need a facilitator.
I can absolutely guarantee you're never going to convert that. I've had examples less for me, but for some of my friends where it's a friend of theirs or a friend twice removed has said...
can I have a conversation and then he's literally pitched to them that they need a coach and said oh you need to have a coach and I can do that for you and the person like my friends like going hold on I didn't invite this conversation I haven't asked for a coach you've come to me and told me so if anyone's being encouraged to operate in that way by a inverted commerce business guru that just that feels icky
inauthentic, and it's unethical that, and you, if you solve that way, I'll be bloody impressed, because I don't think it happens. Well, you might solve that. How did you manage that? Just the once and never again,
they wouldn't come back and do anything. Horrible. Yes. I think trusting your body, if it feels uncomfortable, if it feels icky, it's probably uncomfortable and icky, and it's probably not the right way to go about proceeding.
proceeding. By the same token, I think being scared to say, can we have a conversation about that then? Or what would be useful for you to know about me?
I think not holding back in that context can be a very useful context. - And then the other thing I offer up is, in the conversation you're having with, let's say, a potential client,
should you hear that they need something? that you do not offer and you know that someone else does, be gracious and say to them,
"Look, this is not my sweet spot. This is not what I do." Or, "I don't feel like I'm the right person." However, can I introduce you to dot, dot, dot? Because that goes a really long way on multiple levels.
So firstly, the person that was coming to you. you to seek a solution in the first place, are more likely to go, huh, well that's very genuine of KSC. And if she's recommending someone else into me,
I'll take, that's for my corporates, I do that quite a lot. But secondly, the person that you're then recommending in, you're buying favor with them as well. And you'll find that potentially every time they'll remember that and it's reciprocated.
reciprocated. The other thing you can do, especially if it's at a corporate level, I have an introduction fee. So if I was to say, "Allie, I was working with a client and they wanted a core group of kick ass coaches and I came to you and I said,
"Look, I need 10 coaches, but I want it to go through your business because it's not our remit." But there's an intro fee of 10%. And so, on the first project, I was like, "Okay, I'm going to do that." and that is a really common way of operating and versus you I've heard this before some friends have introduced people to a big corporate project and then the person has gone oh that's really kind of you can I buy
you a glass of wine to say thank you yeah no no not really it's going to be unless it's a gigantic glass of wine so um so there's there's positives there,
and I think that works really well as well. Yeah, it feels like a positive flow of energy around the world, doesn't it? I'm just passing the right thing to the right person. It's integrative, isn't it? It gets the right level in.
So one of the chapters I'm writing for my workbook is called tying things up in bows, and I think we've touched on it. So the the branding of it, the how to talk about it, the who it's for and so on.
Pricing is obviously. part of that. So I think it can be really nice if you're starting out as a coach and you're not just talking about ethereal or the coaching, but this is the package. This is what I offer.
This is how much it costs, blah, blah. So I know you're not selling coaching, but it's a similar sort of thinking that must go into here's the thing I'm offering to some people and I'm going to tie it up in a bow and make it a package.
If you have a thing that you want to parcel up, how do you start the thinking of how am I going to charge this? - It's different corporate versus collective. I'll be really honest.
So if I'm creating pricing for corporate, very easy versus collective, I feel a swathe of guilt, oh my God, will people pay this? So just to be very, very transparent with you and your listeners.
Corporate -wise, I often, I've got pricing already that I've used at a lot of times. I know what I can charge. So there's a variety of factors. What industry are we going into?
What's the seniority of the group that we're working with? How long is the program in -person versus virtual? How much of it the content needs to be created versus curated?
And have we worked with them before? And again, do they have a pricing expectation? That's always a question you should ask a corporate. What's your budget? - Yeah. - So that's how I start.
And I look at the pricing that way. Our associates working with us, are they not? So that has a minor inflection on the pricing because, yeah,
your margin changes when you have associates working with you. So that's one part. And then on the collective side. this is where I'm my own worst enemy,
because I'm like, so this is people buying for themselves. And I just always undercharge absolutely. And I know that, but to eke the price up,
I feel guilty. It's for the coaches listening there, the limiting beliefs around money abound. Yes, we can even hear them as you speak. It's quite nice to hear someone say them out loud,
go, oh, there they are. Hello. - Oh, I know they're there, trust me. And that's even more annoying when you're that bloody self -aware and you're like, you really, the shoulds and the coulds come out. You know,
should sort this one out. So literally, we are about to put our pricing up for the first time in about four years. And I'm like, oh, God. - You talk to all,
yeah. I can remember really clearly a day when I was inviting an associate to come. come to a day which was going to be based, I don't know, London somewhere, and there was going to be a cost involved which was really down to the bare bones for how we could facilitate it.
And she said she couldn't afford it and I thought that no problem, that's fine. And then she told me in a different breath over lunch that she was going on an EQI assessor's course the following day which was many thousands of pounds and it really landed on me.
properly that that's a perception of value it's not whether she can afford it or not it's where she's decided to spend her money and so I really try and think now about where's this person wanting to spend their money because they will still pay 120 quid for a hairdo and some colour in their hair and then I worry about a direct course it's interesting.
Oh my god that's so funny so I'm the the new pricing of anyone's hair listening, is now one, two, three. So I just decided I like that. And that's for a two hour masterclass.
But I love the what you've just said to me. It's like, well, yeah, I used to pay 120 quid for my hair, cut in color. Yeah. And that all that did was that makes me feel great. But if you come and hang out with us,
and you do some learning for yourself, I know the impact that that were the incremental impact is on what you. do, how you design, the work it can bring in,
the impact you have on your participants, your learners. Yes. Thank you. You're welcome. You can send me a glass of wine. There we go. Season two of A Listening Life has the support of SciSoft.
I'm pleased to share a discount code with you for their Emotional Intelligence Assessment Certification, EQI 2. and the EQExtra video series. I'm a big advocate of SciSoft's tools.
This is an affiliate link but I would never recommend anything that I don't use regularly myself. Tim and his team at SciSoft have looked after all aspects of EQI2 for my own business and now they've launched EQExtra video tools for clients.
Email query @scisoft .com to claim a 10 % discount code for the EQI certification. and EQ Extra. Use discount code listening10 and find all the spellings and contacts in the show notes.
I do find it fascinating how we think about pricing, but I've actually had some really nice breakthrough thinking over the last couple of years in corporates, but with package pricing.
So working out in its entirety, what will it cost us to get a 10 % discount code? done? So all hotels, all the travel, all the accidental changes that we need to make,
the other calls that we weren't expecting, that all of the stuff it would take across six months and then put a price for that, which feels abundant enough that we're happy to do those changes and make that work happen.
And the clients happy because they know how much it's going to cost and they've signed it off. And then we can just do the work without any... oh, you know, there's an extra two hours here or there's something else there. That's really been interesting.
I would really recommend people play with that a bit. What would it feel nice? Yeah, what figure would this feel nice to me? Someone said they call it the Goldilocks effect. Is it too big?
Is it too small? Or is it just right? I like that. What's the Goldilocks effect? Yeah, that's really nice. And also fair. So fair. exchange, who's getting a good deal compared with another or is it equally beneficial for both?
- Well, I'd also add the third element into that as well is associate, so especially if you've got associate. So how does it all feel from the balance of exchange? - Yes, 100 % the exchange of fairness.
And certainly if you're working as an associate and you're feeling it's not fair, if you're giving more than that's, I'm sure we've all been there. - Okay. I've been there. I've been there. It's easy to find yourself there.
It's not healthy that there is it? No. Yes, it feels icky. It doesn't feel comfortable because you realize that you are giving probably more of your time and your energy. And when you look at it,
you're like, oh, but the initial exchange you go to is financial. I think the other exchange, so there are some other exchanges when you work as an associate and it is around exposure to clients you may may never get to be exposed to if you were to find them yourself,
the types of topics that you're working on potentially, the situations that arise as a consequence of the conversations you're having with those clients and broadening your experience and growing yourself.
So that's playing with a nice gang. So the caliber of the coaches you might be exposed to. I think some of the most interesting work I've had come along has been as a secondary benefit to working with the gang.
So also working with the same associates, but in different contexts. So it's worth just playing in those teams, isn't it? Just to see what comes up. - Yeah, definitely. - Yeah, nice. Well,
Kirsty, I'd love to speak to you all day. I've got a million more things I'd like to ask you. I'm going to have to... get you back. Love to. But I'm going to cause call pause, otherwise, the podcast will be too long.
I want to ask you about your podcasting and all sorts of things. But there is one, and I'm going to put the information in the show notes for your podcast will get people able to find you there. I'm very grateful.
The last question for you, just a mini question would be any advice you've got for people who might be listening to this or feeling like this? they could do with a bit you know they're running out of steam or need some commercial inspirations anything you've learned or a top tip that you'd share.
Oh I don't know why it's coming to my head but Simon Sinek's book about the infinite game versus a finite game so we're often encouraged to think that business is finite i .e.
that there is a start and an end but that's so not true it's infinite. infinite. So my thought would be, see everything as it has longevity and therefore possibility.
And what is the legacy you want to leave? Where do you want to go? What's the mark that you want to put on the world? (upbeat music) - A massive thank you to Kirsty Lewis.
- Track it down on Instagram at schoolfacilit - or on her website with the same name. So much energy and giving in the way Kirstie runs her business. I really appreciate the way it's so put together and easy to follow.
If you're feeling stuck about what the heck to do today in your business there's a huge flashing arrow pointing to the good place to spend some time if you fancy it. A question for each of us, what would our business look like if it were optimally branded?
targeting the right people, simple and digestible like Kirstie's SOF? My huge thanks to producer Steve Folland and to Lauren Hills at HQ.
A Listening Life is built especially for coaches who are tired of trying to grow their business into something that makes them happy and brings in the money. For tools and inspiration, find us on Instagram @alisteninglife and through the website www.listening-life.co.uk
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